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  3. Australian anti-porn group claims responsibility for Steam's new censorship rules in victory against 'porn sick brain rotted pedo gamer fetishists', and things only get weirder from there

Australian anti-porn group claims responsibility for Steam's new censorship rules in victory against 'porn sick brain rotted pedo gamer fetishists', and things only get weirder from there

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  • squid64@lemmy.caS squid64@lemmy.ca

    What even is ethical porn? And what you consider β€œethical” is just your subjective opinion.

    π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C This user is from outside of this forum
    π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C This user is from outside of this forum
    π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš 
    wrote on last edited by
    #128

    Porn made with the willing consent of all parties involved, where everyone is compensated appropriately. No harm = no ethical problems as far as I’m concerned. Most big studios these days make sure of this. But there have also been pioneers that push the bar further up (e.g. Lustery, Ersties or Erika Lust).

    squid64@lemmy.caS 1 Reply Last reply
    1
    • GloomyG Gloomy

      Nice things like games involving incest and rape?

      BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
      BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
      BlackLaZoR
      wrote on last edited by
      #129

      Sir: If it’s illegal, please notify the authorities. If it’s not illegal, then I’ll have to politely ask you to fuck off.

      GloomyG 1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • BlackLaZoRB BlackLaZoR

        Sir: If it’s illegal, please notify the authorities. If it’s not illegal, then I’ll have to politely ask you to fuck off.

        GloomyG This user is from outside of this forum
        GloomyG This user is from outside of this forum
        Gloomy
        wrote on last edited by
        #130

        That logic falls apart real fast. Hitting children, for example. Legal, but is it right?

        Some places have legal laws that are horrifying. You can see the other implementation of your logic there. Like, is being gay a bad thing, as long as it is illegal?

        BlackLaZoRB 1 Reply Last reply
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        • π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš 

          I can think it’s a messed up fantasy, but that doesn’t mean it should immediately be banned by a payment processor.

          Regardless, there are tons of studies showing that consuming this kind of porn actually helps prevent people from acting on these fantasies. The net result is likely less sexual abuse, not more. Because it’s fantasy media, it likely is able to keep the fantasy a fantasy, it gives people an outlet.

          GloomyG This user is from outside of this forum
          GloomyG This user is from outside of this forum
          Gloomy
          wrote on last edited by
          #131

          there are tons of studies

          Show me a meta study that supports this claim, please. Not a single study, but something that looks at those alleged thousands of studies and comes to the conclusion you are implying here.

          π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C 1 Reply Last reply
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          • squid64@lemmy.caS squid64@lemmy.ca

            How is being against porn and the porn industry fascism? There are genuine reason to be against porn and it doesn’t have anything to do with fascism. Actually if you think that saying that porn is bad is a fascist statement you are actually portraying fascism in a good light and making them look like they are the most reasonable people. Also β€œyou heard”, β€œI heard”, those statements mean nothing unless you can prove it.

            Z This user is from outside of this forum
            Z This user is from outside of this forum
            ziltoid1991@lemmy.world
            wrote on last edited by
            #132

            These β€œfeminists” have connections to TERFs, anti-LGBTQ+ groups, and the same NCOSE, that when it was called Morality in Media, labeled non-sexual representation of interracial couples as β€œpornography”.

            If we’re at right-wing appropriation of leftist talking points, then you can also let chuds to call black protagonists in video-games the hard-R N-word, and let them harass indie video game devs until they remove said characters, all in the name or β€œbeing anti-corporate”. Maybe even let big AI corporations to scrape intellectual property and then profit off from it, displacing millions of workers (hopefully only until the hype lasts), because β€œpatent trolls” and β€œDisney has enough copyrighted material to create their own model” (that argument relies on speculation, that a future model can work off of less data, but still creating good results).

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • S shaggysnacks@lemmy.myserv.one

              Link Preview Image
              Australian Anti-Porn Group Collective Shout Escalates its War for Video Game Censorship

              Australian Anti-Porn activist group Collective Shout has mounted a pressure campaign against Steam and other platforms for hosting "explicit content".

              favicon

              GamesHub (www.gameshub.com)

              Collective Shout is a self-described feminist non-partisan organization, but has alleged ties with anti-trans and conservative organizations. The group has developed a reputation as a sort of puritan crusade that targets everything from Detroit: Become Human to Tyler, the Creator.

              This one quote tells me what kind of people Collective Shout are. First, Collective Shout will go after the low hanging fruit and then will move to LGBT themed games.

              S This user is from outside of this forum
              S This user is from outside of this forum
              skisnow@lemmy.ca
              wrote on last edited by skisnow@lemmy.ca
              #133

              There’s ample evidence that a lot of recent self-identifying β€œfeminist” grassroots organisations worldwide are fronts for (or sponsored by) christo-fascist organisations.

              After gay marriage passed to widespread popular support in multiple countries, there was a whole considered and deliberate regrouping, where they identified trans rights and porn as wedge issues that they could present their bigoted view as a progressive one. That’s why we’re suddenly inundated with orgs like this one; they’re posing as feminists and progressives but they’re actually bigots trying to occupy progressive or mainstream spaces, and give shelter to bigotry in others.

              A 1 Reply Last reply
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              • squid64@lemmy.caS squid64@lemmy.ca

                What even is ethical porn? And what you consider β€œethical” is just your subjective opinion.

                S This user is from outside of this forum
                S This user is from outside of this forum
                skisnow@lemmy.ca
                wrote on last edited by
                #134

                And what you consider β€œethical” is just your subjective opinion.

                tu quoque

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • I inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
                  This post did not contain any content.
                  J This user is from outside of this forum
                  J This user is from outside of this forum
                  jassmith@sh.itjust.works
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #135

                  People are blaming Collective Shout but crazy lobbying groups have always existed. Visa and Mastercard are solely responsible for acquiescing. Maybe it’s time we stop caring so much what people on the political extremes have to say?

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • GloomyG Gloomy

                    there are tons of studies

                    Show me a meta study that supports this claim, please. Not a single study, but something that looks at those alleged thousands of studies and comes to the conclusion you are implying here.

                    π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C This user is from outside of this forum
                    π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C This user is from outside of this forum
                    π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš 
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #136

                    Link Preview Image
                    Pornography and Sexual Aggression: Can Meta-Analysis Find a Link? - PubMed

                    Whether pornography contributes to sexual aggression in real life has been the subject of dozens of studies over multiple decades. Nevertheless, scholars have not come to a consensus about whether effects are real. The current meta-analysis examined experimental, correlational, and population studie …

                    favicon

                    PubMed (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)

                    Population studies suggested that increased availability of pornography is associated with reduced sexual aggression at the population level

                    GloomyG 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš 

                      Porn made with the willing consent of all parties involved, where everyone is compensated appropriately. No harm = no ethical problems as far as I’m concerned. Most big studios these days make sure of this. But there have also been pioneers that push the bar further up (e.g. Lustery, Ersties or Erika Lust).

                      squid64@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                      squid64@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                      squid64@lemmy.ca
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #137

                      So if a father and daughter consent is that ethical now?

                      π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • I inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
                        This post did not contain any content.
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                        cyberflunk@lemmy.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #138

                        Collective shout finacials year: 2024 revenue: 458043 employee_expenses: 107000 other_expenses: 215488 net_surplus: 135555 employees: total_fte: 2 full_time: 0 part_time: 1 casual: 4 volunteers: 15 donations_and_bequests: 389800 government_grants: 0 commercial_income: 0 expense_to_revenue_ratio: β€œ70.4%” average_expense_per_employee: 39400

                        Leadership

                        • name: Melinda Tankard Reist role: Founder, Movement Director public_socials:

                          • Twitter: @MelTankardReist
                          • Instagram: @collective.shout public_email_address: Not publicly listed salary: Not publicly listed
                        • name: Caitlin Roper role: Campaigns Manager public_socials:

                          • Instagram: @collective.shout public_email_address: Not publicly listed salary: Not publicly listed
                        • name: Renee Chopping role: Campaigns Strategy public_socials:

                          • LinkedIn public_email_address: r******@collectiveshout.org salary: Not publicly listed
                        • name: Lyn Swanson Kennedy role: Campaigns Strategy public_socials:

                          • Instagram: @collective.shout public_email_address: Not publicly listed salary: Not publicly listed
                        • name: Coralie Alison role: Movement Operations Manager public_socials:

                          • Twitter: @CoralieAlison
                          • Instagram: @collective.shout public_email_address: Not publicly listed salary: Not publicly listed
                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • I inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
                          This post did not contain any content.
                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                          cyberflunk@lemmy.world
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #139
                          Collective shout finacials
                          year: 2024
                          revenue: 458043
                          employee_expenses: 107000
                          other_expenses: 215488
                          net_surplus: 135555
                          employees: 
                            total_fte: 2
                            full_time: 0
                            part_time: 1
                            casual: 4
                          volunteers: 15
                          donations_and_bequests: 389800
                          government_grants: 0
                          commercial_income: 0
                          expense_to_revenue_ratio: "70.4%"
                          average_expense_per_employee: 39400
                          
                          Leadership
                          - name: Melinda Tankard Reist
                            role: Founder, Movement Director
                            public_socials:
                              - Twitter: @MelTankardReist
                              - Instagram: @collective.shout
                            public_email_address: Not publicly listed
                            salary: Not publicly listed
                          
                          - name: Caitlin Roper
                            role: Campaigns Manager
                            public_socials:
                              - Instagram: @collective.shout
                            public_email_address: Not publicly listed
                            salary: Not publicly listed
                          
                          - name: Renee Chopping
                            role: Campaigns Strategy
                            public_socials:
                              - LinkedIn
                            public_email_address: r******@collectiveshout.org
                            salary: Not publicly listed
                          
                          - name: Lyn Swanson Kennedy
                            role: Campaigns Strategy
                            public_socials:
                              - Instagram: @collective.shout
                            public_email_address: Not publicly listed
                            salary: Not publicly listed
                          
                          - name: Coralie Alison
                            role: Movement Operations Manager
                            public_socials:
                              - Twitter: @CoralieAlison
                              - Instagram: @collective.shout
                            public_email_address: Not publicly listed
                            salary: Not publicly listed
                          
                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš 

                            Link Preview Image
                            Pornography and Sexual Aggression: Can Meta-Analysis Find a Link? - PubMed

                            Whether pornography contributes to sexual aggression in real life has been the subject of dozens of studies over multiple decades. Nevertheless, scholars have not come to a consensus about whether effects are real. The current meta-analysis examined experimental, correlational, and population studie …

                            favicon

                            PubMed (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)

                            Population studies suggested that increased availability of pornography is associated with reduced sexual aggression at the population level

                            GloomyG This user is from outside of this forum
                            GloomyG This user is from outside of this forum
                            Gloomy
                            wrote on last edited by gloomy@mander.xyz
                            #140

                            More studies with improved practices and preregistration would be welcome.

                            Next sentence

                            Also:

                            Whether pornography contributes to sexual aggression in real life has been the subject of dozens of studies over multiple decades. Nevertheless, scholars have not come to a consensus about whether effects are real.

                            Also also this study has nothing to do with your claim. Its not about porn preventing violent behaviour, it’s about whether porn causes it or not.

                            π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • K kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                              Every accusation is a confession for these sex-negative types. The guy who shrieks the loudest about gender non-conforming people being abominable and vile is usually found 6 months later in Thailand smoking hash and hiring kathoey escorts.

                              Z This user is from outside of this forum
                              Z This user is from outside of this forum
                              zink@programming.dev
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #141

                              Absolutely, and the scary part to me is how that projection includes LGBT folks also being child predators all the damn time.

                              It’s like they are a bunch of bisexual pedophiles who are repressed and angry, and they get jealous when they see other people giving in to the same desires. Or, as we see all the time, they assume somebody β€œgiving in” to their homosexuality or gender dysphoria is also β€œgiving in” to their pedophilia.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • squid64@lemmy.caS squid64@lemmy.ca

                                So if a father and daughter consent is that ethical now?

                                π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C This user is from outside of this forum
                                π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C This user is from outside of this forum
                                π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš 
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #142

                                There is a clear power disparity between a father and a daughter. It’s debatable if the daughter could even realistically consent in that case.

                                But a depiction of it in porn is in my view not inherently unethical. I can disapprove of it personally, but that doesn’t mean we should start banning it based on feelings of inappropriateness.

                                We depict murder and violence in movies and video games too. Actual murder is of course not exactly ethical, but we have no problem accepting it in a movie, because nobody is actually being murdered. You might not like to watch a movie like Saw or something (I personally don’t), but it doesn’t make the movie itself unethical. To me, porn is no different. There’s a clear separation between fiction and reality.

                                Where imo a line is crossed, is if said media actually makes a clear effort to promote these acts IRL. But that’s not the case here.

                                squid64@lemmy.caS 1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš 

                                  There is a clear power disparity between a father and a daughter. It’s debatable if the daughter could even realistically consent in that case.

                                  But a depiction of it in porn is in my view not inherently unethical. I can disapprove of it personally, but that doesn’t mean we should start banning it based on feelings of inappropriateness.

                                  We depict murder and violence in movies and video games too. Actual murder is of course not exactly ethical, but we have no problem accepting it in a movie, because nobody is actually being murdered. You might not like to watch a movie like Saw or something (I personally don’t), but it doesn’t make the movie itself unethical. To me, porn is no different. There’s a clear separation between fiction and reality.

                                  Where imo a line is crossed, is if said media actually makes a clear effort to promote these acts IRL. But that’s not the case here.

                                  squid64@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  squid64@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  squid64@lemmy.ca
                                  wrote on last edited by squid64@lemmy.ca
                                  #143

                                  What if the daughter is in their 20s or 30s? As for depiction, yes there are depiction of violence and murder in movies and games but it is not done in a way that glorify it and most people don’t watch it with thirst for murder and violence and they don’t get off to it either. The problem with porn is it’s made with that in mind, it only exist for people to lust after and get off to it. In many circumstances they are always trying to look for more extreme content because the normal stuff isn’t as satisfying anymore. It has been shown to affect the same area of the brain as meth and cocaine. It doesn’t cause harm physically but mentally. Sure a thing existing doesn’t make it inherently wrong but it more the effect it has on the people consuming the content. It’s also why drugs are bad. You could say the drug is just a plant, that it’s natural and that there is nothing wrong with that plant existing. But the problem is the effect that plant has on people who consume it. And I am not against you drawing something in private at home or anything, in fact I am strictly against spying and mass surveillance and people should all have privacy in their own home and place they live. So whatever you do on your own time by yourself alone I don’t care but the problem comes when that thing gets shared with others and affects them negatively.

                                  π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • GloomyG Gloomy

                                    More studies with improved practices and preregistration would be welcome.

                                    Next sentence

                                    Also:

                                    Whether pornography contributes to sexual aggression in real life has been the subject of dozens of studies over multiple decades. Nevertheless, scholars have not come to a consensus about whether effects are real.

                                    Also also this study has nothing to do with your claim. Its not about porn preventing violent behaviour, it’s about whether porn causes it or not.

                                    π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C This user is from outside of this forum
                                    π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C This user is from outside of this forum
                                    π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš 
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #144

                                    This is not contradictory.

                                    The meta-study says that pornography contributing to sexual aggression is not proven. Meaning, it doesn’t make it worse.

                                    Meanwhile the population study seems to suggest porn usage reduces sexual aggression, or is at least correlated with it.

                                    GloomyG 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • L lumisal@lemmy.world

                                      They might be referring to the 90s, post Mortal Kombat.

                                      A lot of games got blood censorship in a lot of countries.

                                      Even before that I know some games like Contra they replaced the infected β€œhumans” with robots.

                                      E This user is from outside of this forum
                                      E This user is from outside of this forum
                                      etterra@discuss.online
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #145

                                      I am really fucking old, to be fair, but every time I hear about violent video games being censored it’s Australia.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • D duamerthrax@lemmy.world

                                        Always has.

                                        Link Preview Image
                                        Australia's 'small breast' ban

                                        Australia has vowed to fight child exploitation β€” but is stamping out images of "small-breasted" women really the right way to do it?

                                        favicon

                                        The Week (theweek.com)

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #146

                                        Talk about braindead / misguided legislature.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        1
                                        • π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš C π™²πš‘πšŠπš’πš›πš–πšŠπš— π™ΌπšŽπš˜πš 

                                          This is not contradictory.

                                          The meta-study says that pornography contributing to sexual aggression is not proven. Meaning, it doesn’t make it worse.

                                          Meanwhile the population study seems to suggest porn usage reduces sexual aggression, or is at least correlated with it.

                                          GloomyG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          GloomyG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Gloomy
                                          wrote on last edited by gloomy@mander.xyz
                                          #147

                                          Meanwhile the population study seems to suggest porn usage reduces sexual aggression, or is at least correlated with it.

                                          The last sentence of the abstract (More studies with improved practices and preregistration would be welcome.) seems to be adressing this. In the study itself they say:

                                          A third group of studies considers relationships between pornography consumption and sexual violence at the population level (e.g., Diamond et al., 2011; Gentry, 1991). In such studies, changes in the population rate of sexual crimes are associated with changes in the availability of pornography, often due to changes in the law. Cross-nationally, most (though not all) such studies suggest that pornography consumption is correlated with reductions in sexual violence. However, such data are correlational in nature, and third variables at the societal level may also be responsible for these patterns.

                                          You said, at the start of our dialog, that:

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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