theminions@lemmy.world The prone stuff also just seems unbelievable. Jabbing someone with your off-hand isn’t going to knock anyone over. It’s not a running body check against someone who isn’t bracing.

I see this all of the time in the PF2r subreddit. Everyone wants to know why it’s so hard to push enemies around or knock them over, as if they’re pro-wrestlers desperate to oversell for you for a paycheque, and not creatures who are opposing your attempts to do those things.

Not completely right

(5.5e) Two-weapon fighting is a Fighting Style that only some classes can get.

Dual Wielder is a general Feat that any character of level 4 with str or dex 13 or higher can take.

Anyone can dual wield when their main weapon has the Light property.

There are three things in the rules that I’m aware of that talk about fighting with two weapons:

1. There is a subsection in the basic rules called Two-Weapon Fighting. These are the base rules for anyone using two weapons (BA attack without ability modifier, must use light weapons)
2. There is also a fighting style called Two-Weapon Fighting available to fighters and a couple of specific subclasses (Swashbuckler has that option, I think). This fighting style allows you to add your ability modifier to the off-hand attack.
3. There is a feat called Dual Wielding (Player’s Handbook) that grants additional bonuses: the weapons don’t have to be light, a +1 AC bonus, and you’re able to draw or stow both weapons at once.

I’m not trying to sell you on class-based RPGs if that’s not your thing. I’m just saying that I think your particular problem as stated is more about the style of the specific table than of the specific system (though in fairness I agree that the system isn’t helping you much). Do you like classless games better, or are you more in the “just write a book” camp?

5e is the disaster

I enjoy classless. I started on Red Box D&D back in 1982 (I think) and it was an absolute revelation for me and a foundational moment for my entire life’s ‘hobby’ compared to the computer adventure games I’d played up until that point (The Hobbit, Colossal Cave, Zork, etc). But a few short years after that I was introduced to Runequest and D&D just seemed like a child’s game in comparison. Again, I want to make it clear I’m not dismissing anyone else’s game. If D&D is your one true love then that’s awesome and I’m glad you love it and hope you have many, many more years of gaming enjoyment.

But I, personally, found the class system and the level system just too artificial and not reflective of living, breathing characters. It felt (to me) like a cartoon version of role-playing compared to Runequest where PCs were deeply, and fundamentally, embedded in the game world, and the limitations on them were in-game, world-based limitations, rather than game system limitations which were not a natural outcome of the world, but of the arbitrary decisions of the game designers. I’m thinking ‘woshippers of Humakt (the RQ god of Death) can’t kill people who surrender’ vs. ‘magic users can’t wear armor’ kind of limitations.

I want to stress, once again, I’m not trying to shit on any one else’s game fun. The more people playing TTRPGs the better as far as I’m concerned.

Can you play as a creature with four arms?

Is a fist considered a light weapon? Hmmm

Loxodons (Elephant species) have two arms but can use their trunk to make a grapple attack.

New players really should be told to play Pathfinder 2e at this point, not D&D5e

It’s unfortunate that DND 5e is the sole mega popular game.

People who want fantasy tactical combat would probably do well with Pathfinder 2e. But people who just want to tell a fun story would probably have a lot more fun with something lighter, like Fate.

There’s so many games out there and most don’t get the love they deserve

I got lost in the reeds, I though we were talking about bonus action unarmed attacks, which, for doing a bonus action attack you need a light weapon and only monks consider unarmed attacks “light” for the purposes of bonus action attacks. So yeah, fighters RAW can’t bonus action unarmed strike with their “offhand” because they don’t consider their first/feet light weapons.

In any case, you are right, anyone should be able to use their whole action to kick someone even if they are wielding a 2hander, but only monks can do it as a bonus action effectively, if they are using versatile monk weapons like quarterstaves.

I know you wanted for references, but since I changed my argument you might not need them anymore. If you want I can search proper references.

Thikreen have 4 arms. The secondary set can use Light weapons. Note that having 4 arms, each holding a Dagger or other light weapon doesn’t inherently grant any additional attacks.

The best combo I have come up with is using 5.5 weapon mastery ruleson a Berserker Barb, and a 2h weapon with some desirable property like Cleave in your Primary arms, and Scimitars in your secondary arms. After level 5, with attack action you can make 1 attack with your big weapon, Cleave attack if you hit, then 1 attack with the secondary arms Scimitar, then an attack from Nick as part of that same attack action, then a bonus action attack with scimitar. STR bonus on first 2 attacks, +2 Rage bonus on all 5 attacks, +2d6 damage on first hit when Reckless, which you should always use.

That is true, for the 2014 (5e) version

The 2024 / 5.5e version rules no longer have the “two-weapon fighting” subsection - the rule is now merged into the description of the ‘light’ weapon property

I haven’t played Runequest. It’s been on the list for ages, though.

I’m actually not even that big a fan of D&D specifically; most of my recent games have been PF2e, which has a lot more of a LEGO set feel with how you build characters and I think can avoid some of the issues you’re talking about. But I’m always up for trying new systems when I get the chance. In fairness, that’s rare.

With you 100% on that last line.