Skip to content
0
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (Sketchy)
  • No Skin
Collapse

Wandering Adventure Party

  1. Home
  2. Uncategorized
  3. Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud.

Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Uncategorized
linuxnoaifossopensourceprivacyselfhostselfhostingbigtechrighttorepairram
61 Posts 53 Posters 0 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

    Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

    You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

    AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

    Reject this future.

    Keep your hardware local.

    Run #Linux.

    Own your data.

    The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

    #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

    Link Preview Image
    Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

    A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

    favicon

    Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

    Nicovel0 πŸ‰N This user is from outside of this forum
    Nicovel0 πŸ‰N This user is from outside of this forum
    Nicovel0 πŸ‰
    wrote last edited by
    #32

    @terminaltilt those people have no new ideas, Bezos just reinvented the mainframe.

    Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

      Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

      You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

      AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

      Reject this future.

      Keep your hardware local.

      Run #Linux.

      Own your data.

      The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

      #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

      Link Preview Image
      Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

      A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

      favicon

      Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

      Internet RandoM This user is from outside of this forum
      Internet RandoM This user is from outside of this forum
      Internet Rando
      wrote last edited by
      #33

      @terminaltilt When people see me on here saying "Local-first Software Principles should be the fucking law", this is what I'm talking about.

      #CassandraComplexGoneWild

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

        Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

        You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

        AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

        Reject this future.

        Keep your hardware local.

        Run #Linux.

        Own your data.

        The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

        #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

        Link Preview Image
        Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

        A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

        favicon

        Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

        Michiel PiscaerM This user is from outside of this forum
        Michiel PiscaerM This user is from outside of this forum
        Michiel Piscaer
        wrote last edited by
        #34

        @terminaltilt not only that, but how it is going right now. Is that it gives power to the 1%

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

          Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

          You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

          AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

          Reject this future.

          Keep your hardware local.

          Run #Linux.

          Own your data.

          The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

          #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

          Link Preview Image
          Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

          A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

          favicon

          Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

          Lorenzo BonomelliL This user is from outside of this forum
          Lorenzo BonomelliL This user is from outside of this forum
          Lorenzo Bonomelli
          wrote last edited by
          #35

          @terminaltilt
          Honestly, I really like cloud computing and cloud storage.
          Since we’re almost always connected to the internet, it’s an incredibly useful solution.

          I'd be happy to pay a subscription fee if:
          1) my data is properly encrypted
          2) my data stays on a European server
          3) my money doesn't go to a dictatorship country (such as where Bezos lives)
          4) the system I'm using is FOSS

          S Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
            meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
            meek cynics
            wrote last edited by
            #36

            Already did in that comment, but since I can’t rule out custom emoji inaccessibility issues, Imma spell it out for thee, Snep :floofHappy:: Android Google/Linux.

            Cc: Terminal Tilt

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

              Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

              You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

              AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

              Reject this future.

              Keep your hardware local.

              Run #Linux.

              Own your data.

              The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

              #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

              Link Preview Image
              Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

              A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

              favicon

              Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

              JWJ This user is from outside of this forum
              JWJ This user is from outside of this forum
              JW
              wrote last edited by
              #37

              @terminaltilt
              My wife is a very aware and private person, so she doesn't want any of our personal information in the cloud.

              As a person who stopped doing hands on tech work 20 years ago, I'm amazed that many of my old Unix skills are still current an suitable to run home systems.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
                meek cynicsC This user is from outside of this forum
                meek cynics
                wrote last edited by
                #38

                Yea Snep :floofHappy:, I was replying to Terminal Tilt who claimed using Linux is a solution against SaaSS, when it’s really about empowering everyone with a free software. Linux is not a politically important part of GNU/Linux distributions (and GNU implementations too for that matter, but at least the GNU project, unlike the Linux Foundation, isn’t advocating for proprietary software and SaaSS). Neither do GNU/Linux distributions hold a significant market share of Linux, most of which being Android that many people are already using.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • Lorenzo BonomelliL Lorenzo Bonomelli

                  @terminaltilt
                  Honestly, I really like cloud computing and cloud storage.
                  Since we’re almost always connected to the internet, it’s an incredibly useful solution.

                  I'd be happy to pay a subscription fee if:
                  1) my data is properly encrypted
                  2) my data stays on a European server
                  3) my money doesn't go to a dictatorship country (such as where Bezos lives)
                  4) the system I'm using is FOSS

                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                  shadows
                  wrote last edited by
                  #39

                  @LorenzoBonomelli @terminaltilt will you still like it if they pass laws that enforce on-device scanning of all data on the internet?

                  Lorenzo BonomelliL 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                    Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                    You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                    AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                    Reject this future.

                    Keep your hardware local.

                    Run #Linux.

                    Own your data.

                    The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                    #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                    Link Preview Image
                    Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                    A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                    favicon

                    Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                    Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A This user is from outside of this forum
                    Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A This user is from outside of this forum
                    Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #40

                    @terminaltilt They are closing in: Big Tech is on the prowl of ALL of your data. And flooding the internet with all their AI infested cloudware, they can respond with ever so heavily manipulated lies and bogus selling it to you as facts and truth, regardless whatever you were searching for on that web. That fake reality will warp anything more strongly than a supermassive black hole.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • S shadows

                      @LorenzoBonomelli @terminaltilt will you still like it if they pass laws that enforce on-device scanning of all data on the internet?

                      Lorenzo BonomelliL This user is from outside of this forum
                      Lorenzo BonomelliL This user is from outside of this forum
                      Lorenzo Bonomelli
                      wrote last edited by
                      #41

                      @shadows @terminaltilt

                      Well, I'm not an IT expert, so I'm not sure I got what you said to me πŸ˜…

                      Isn’t data encryption on servers enough to keep my files reasonably safe from everyone, including the hosting company?

                      If the system were FOSS, could a law force the provider to insert a decryption backdoor without the user knowing?

                      In short terms: is on-device scanning for such systems technologically feasible?

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Lorenzo BonomelliL Lorenzo Bonomelli

                        @terminaltilt
                        Honestly, I really like cloud computing and cloud storage.
                        Since we’re almost always connected to the internet, it’s an incredibly useful solution.

                        I'd be happy to pay a subscription fee if:
                        1) my data is properly encrypted
                        2) my data stays on a European server
                        3) my money doesn't go to a dictatorship country (such as where Bezos lives)
                        4) the system I'm using is FOSS

                        Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A This user is from outside of this forum
                        Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A This user is from outside of this forum
                        Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]
                        wrote last edited by
                        #42

                        @LorenzoBonomelli
                        But someone else defines issues 1) thru 4) for you. They own your data then. Your data is on THEIR computer.
                        @terminaltilt

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                          Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                          You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                          AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                          Reject this future.

                          Keep your hardware local.

                          Run #Linux.

                          Own your data.

                          The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                          #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                          Link Preview Image
                          Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                          A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                          favicon

                          Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                          TimR This user is from outside of this forum
                          TimR This user is from outside of this forum
                          Tim
                          wrote last edited by
                          #43

                          @terminaltilt and then as I've just found with FB, if you become persona non grata they can just erase your entire existence really easily. Easier to control citizens if their data is on servers they don't control.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Nicovel0 πŸ‰N Nicovel0 πŸ‰

                            @terminaltilt those people have no new ideas, Bezos just reinvented the mainframe.

                            Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A This user is from outside of this forum
                            Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A This user is from outside of this forum
                            Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]
                            wrote last edited by
                            #44

                            @Nicovel0 HIS mainframe, YOUR data. Pictures of your kids, stored digital receipts of stuff you bought, a photographed confession of that remote uncle who came out in 1944, then snatched by the Nazis, you being confronted with secret messages from your spouse to her co-worker, your pictures where you wear girl's clothes and make-up. Regardless how anyone reacts to them, you truly don't want anyone to google around your data.
                            @terminaltilt

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • AndrΓ© OurednikA AndrΓ© Ourednik

                              @terminaltilt As much as I abhore anything that Jeff does and represents, I see an environmental point in a rental model. In the sense that ownership of hardware in a programmed obsolescence industry model is ecologically worse. Most people run their daily apps on massively overpowered individual machines, produced at huge environmental cost. And I see potential in sharing hardware here. But definitely not on AWS. Rather local hubs, something like a decentralized network of remote processors

                              Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A This user is from outside of this forum
                              Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]A This user is from outside of this forum
                              Frans Super πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈπŸ‹[FCKPVV]
                              wrote last edited by
                              #45

                              @andre_ourednik That's not what Bezos means. He wants YOUR data on HIS centralized 'mainframe'.
                              @terminaltilt

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • TrimTab πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦T TrimTab πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

                                @terminaltilt Bezos is the alternate universe inverse evil version of Patrick Stewart.... Utterly cruel, greedy, narcissistic, and uncharismatic.

                                Please send Bezos back into the worm hole, to the shitty universe that made him.

                                Aleő RoubíčekA This user is from outside of this forum
                                Aleő RoubíčekA This user is from outside of this forum
                                Aleő Roubíček
                                wrote last edited by
                                #46

                                @TrimTab @terminaltilt Do you imply that Bezos's mother had worms when he was born?

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                                  Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                                  You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                                  AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                                  Reject this future.

                                  Keep your hardware local.

                                  Run #Linux.

                                  Own your data.

                                  The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                                  #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                                  Link Preview Image
                                  Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                                  A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                                  favicon

                                  Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                                  Tokyo Outsider (337ppm)T This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Tokyo Outsider (337ppm)T This user is from outside of this forum
                                  Tokyo Outsider (337ppm)
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #47

                                  @terminaltilt I'm not saying you're wrong, but how can they be both wanting to kill local confusing and pushing "AI pcs" that can perform AI calculations locally at the same time?

                                  SteveJBS 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                                    Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                                    You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                                    AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                                    Reject this future.

                                    Keep your hardware local.

                                    Run #Linux.

                                    Own your data.

                                    The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                                    #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                                    Link Preview Image
                                    Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                                    A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                                    favicon

                                    Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                                    DutchKingD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    DutchKingD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    DutchKing
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #48

                                    @terminaltilt

                                    Meine Daten auf meine Festplatte, und das seit ich einen PC habe

                                    SteveJBS 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                                      Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                                      You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                                      AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                                      Reject this future.

                                      Keep your hardware local.

                                      Run #Linux.

                                      Own your data.

                                      The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                                      #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                                      A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                                      favicon

                                      Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                                      Tom TuddenhamF This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Tom TuddenhamF This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Tom Tuddenham
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #49

                                      @terminaltilt The internet shifted power to the edges, then it all got sucked back into the centre again.

                                      Screw that. The mechanisms to DIY the future still exist. Always have.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • AndrΓ© OurednikA AndrΓ© Ourednik

                                        @terminaltilt As much as I abhore anything that Jeff does and represents, I see an environmental point in a rental model. In the sense that ownership of hardware in a programmed obsolescence industry model is ecologically worse. Most people run their daily apps on massively overpowered individual machines, produced at huge environmental cost. And I see potential in sharing hardware here. But definitely not on AWS. Rather local hubs, something like a decentralized network of remote processors

                                        Silver OwlS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Silver OwlS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Silver Owl
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #50

                                        @andre_ourednik @terminaltilt IIRC, there were multiple studies on game streaming which came to the conclusion that even with a thin client, streaming consumes more energy and resources. A local gaming PC is a self-contained device. Streaming not only requires powerful data centres, but also robust infrastructure between your local device and the data centre. Furthermore, thin clients are more prone to be replaced every few years due to non-replaceable batteries and a lack of software updates.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Terminal TiltT Terminal Tilt

                                          Jeff Bezos is saying the quiet part out loud. They want to kill local computing.

                                          You will own nothing and be happy. You will rent your computing power from the cloud. You pay a subscription for the privilege of using a computer.

                                          AI demand is artificially spiking DRAM prices and Big Tech is pushing "AI PCs," the squeeze is on to force us into a rental model.

                                          Reject this future.

                                          Keep your hardware local.

                                          Run #Linux.

                                          Own your data.

                                          The "cloud" is just a landlord for your data.

                                          #NoAi #FOSS #OpenSource #Privacy #SelfHost #SelfHosting #BigTech #RightToRepair #RAM #Amazon #EatTheRich

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          Jeff Bezos said the quiet part out loud β€” hopes that you'll give up your PC to rent one from the cloud

                                          A few years ago, Amazon chairman Jeff Bezos revealed how he thinks of local PC hardware as antiquated, ready to be replaced by cloud options from companies like AWS and Azure.

                                          favicon

                                          Windows Central (www.windowscentral.com)

                                          SoozcatS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          SoozcatS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Soozcat
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #51

                                          @terminaltilt

                                          Dear Jeff,

                                          And I mean this most sincerely,

                                          πŸ–• πŸ–•

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0

                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          Powered by NodeBB Contributors
                                          • First post
                                            Last post