Skip to content
0
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (Sketchy)
  • No Skin
Collapse

Wandering Adventure Party

KichaeK

Kichae

@Kichae
Forum Master
About
Posts
223
Topics
35
Shares
28
Groups
1
Followers
0
Following
0

Posts

Recent Best Controversial

  • Am I the only person who likes removal of evil races?
    KichaeK Kichae

    No, you’re not alone. There has been much ink spelled in defense of the removal of geneaological morality from the game, and from Pathfinder before it. It’s just that most of that ink has been in replies to people being cranky about the removal in the first place.

    Good and evil being a racial trait is just something that about 1/3 of society seems to take for granted. It’s a belief they may not even know they have until someone does something that stops reinforcing that belief. These silent, often unnoticed beliefs are often the corner stones of ideologies, and people don’t like having their ideologies questioned or challenged. Or even highlighted, in many cases.

    So, people who have an ideological belief that good and evil are simple concepts, that good and evil are inherent qualities of a person, and that good and evil are tied to heritage are going to be primed to be giant whiny babies about racial alignment being removed, and to put up a giant stink,while those who see it as a commom sense move are not going to be front and centre making headlines about it. They’ll be in the comments, getting down-voted by the tilted reactionaries who like their simplistic, black-and-white world.

    General rpgmemes

  • A lesson so many need to learn
    KichaeK Kichae

    The bestiary is also really good (and free!). There are thousands of enemies, most of which have solid gimmicks that tell you straight from the stat block how you can best run the creature. And the they’re balanced to the same levels as players, so encounter power budgets are very intuitive.

    The game gets a bit of a bad rap for having “nitpicky” rules, but people often seem to fail to recognize that the rules are spelling out how people already usually resolve things, rather than introducing something novel. It’s written in a very systematized way, and people aren’t used to reading about their intuitive experiences in systematized language.

    The game’s broader community’s obsession with rules orthodoxy doesn’t help…

    Pathfinder rpgmemes

  • A lesson so many need to learn
    KichaeK Kichae

    People are very bad at explaining what they like about things, because usually they like things in contrast to things they don’t like. And people who do identify what they like positively often just get told that their input isn’t welcome, either.

    The problem isn’t whether someone is focusing on negative aspects of what you’re playing or the positive aspects of what they are, it’s that discussions about minority systems are often just puked up onto people who weren’t asking. The conversation is often:

    “Hey, how can I do [thing] in [game I’m playing]?”

    “[Game you’re playing] sucks at [thing]/isn’t designed for [thing]. You should play [something else].”

    “But I like [game I’m playing], and don’t want to convert to a whole new system.”

    This means not only is the asker’s question being totally ignored, but they’re being hit with – sometimes even bombarded by – value judgements they weren’t interested in.

    Pathfinder rpgmemes

  • ...I feel like I'm the only person in this Lemmy conversation other than the OP who didn't completely miss the point of the OP was making:
    KichaeK Kichae

    I’m never going to learn. I come across this kind of obtuseness painfully often in rpg discussions, and I’m always – and I mean always – caught off guard by it. I just expect TTRPG fans to be into things like world building and the deeper questions of setting, and they keep telling me that the only thing they’re cognizant of is stat blocks and rules interactions.

    To the point where I’ve been told that everything but grid-based combat and roll resolutions is just empty set dressing.

    I’ve come to, but seem incapable of holding on to, the conclusion that most TTRPG fans just want an XCOM game they can bully in order to get their way.

    Which is a shame, because Jürgen Hubert has a lot of interesting things to say on RPG settings, and the stories that inspire and underpin them, and having almost everyone completely talk past the prompt was disheartening.

    General

  • Feelings ARE facts.
    KichaeK Kichae

    Christians always told me evil starts in the heart so I needed to be able to control my emotions & shut down “bad” feelings.

    This explains so much about North America today.

    World

  • A lesson so many need to learn
    KichaeK Kichae

    The downside of PF2 is if you try to engage with the core of the online community with this “rules for if I want/need them” attitude, someone will come out of the shadows to shank you.

    There’s a rabid “by the rules, and all the rules” cohort within the community, and they are pretty effective at chasing new players away.

    Pathfinder rpgmemes

  • A lesson so many need to learn
    KichaeK Kichae

    I’ve also found that it’s really easy to convert D&D 3.x and PF1 modules to the system. Not so easy that thought and care doesn’t need to be put into it, but most creatures are based off of the 3e monsters, and there’s a similar philosophy of DC adjustments. So, you get both Paizo’s catalogue of well designed adventure books, as well as a massive back catalogue of classic favourites that you can dig out for a relatively modest effort.

    Pathfinder rpgmemes

  • I've been on #Mastodon for a month now, and I’ve just been posting pics of my #cats
    KichaeK Kichae

    I’ve been on #Mastodon for a month now, and I’ve just been posting pics of my #cats

    It’s amazing how quickly you intuited the rules around here.

    World mastodon cats catsofmastodon

  • How to Roleplay Without Accents
    KichaeK Kichae

    Is… is there some reason to read “How to do X without Y” as some kind of value judgement against Y? Because, like, some of us just can’t do accents. I can’t even do my own regional accent, and never have been able to. There being a resource for someone like me doesn’t really invite this “fuck you” attitude you’re bringing, dude, and frankly, it feels like you’re saying it to people like me when you’re coming after something that seems targeted at me.

    Pathfinder rpg

  • A lesson so many need to learn
    KichaeK Kichae

    Exactly this.

    The game’s rules are, mostly, simple, intuitive, consistent, and predictable. In fact, the rules very often seem to follow from the fiction presented at the table! Sometimes, they do it too well, even – I’ve seen people complain about Trip being Athletics vs Reflex rather than Acrobatics or Fortitude, but as someone who’s taken judo and karate lessons, Athletics vs Reflex is 100% right.

    The rules follow the fiction at the table, and that means 9 times out of 10, if you know the fiction being presented, you can just ask for the roll that makes sense to you. No need to look anything up.

    The game is also moderately systematized, and functional. That is, a lot of what 5e DMs would just treat as “roll skill against DC” is formalized into an “Action” with a concrete name. These actions act like mathematical or programming functions, in that they can take parameters. So, it’s not “Trip”, it’s “Trip (Athletics)”. If your character comes out of left field and does something acrobatic, or even magical, that I think would cause a creature to stumble and fall, then I will leverage “Trip (Acrobatics)” or “Trip (Arcana)”, which now makes it an Acrobatics or Arcana roll vs Reflex. This means “Trip (x)” is actually “Roll x vs Reflex. On a success, the target falls prone, on a… etc.”

    Super flexible, and super intuitive. But formalized, and only presented with the default option, so it looks both complicated and rigid.

    I started running the game for 8 year olds, though, and they picked it up very quickly. I do my best to run sessions totally in-fiction, but that honestly gets broken every other turn or so.

    Pathfinder rpgmemes

  • A lesson so many need to learn
    KichaeK Kichae

    It definitely trips up people who usually just look at RPGBot to build their characters out from levels 1 - 20 before the first session. That’s how I made my build choices, and it was a pretty significant stumbling block for me when I made the switch.

    The blue options aren’t always the best options, because the best options depend on what everyone else is doing.

    Pathfinder rpgmemes

  • Pathfinder 2e: Not For Everyone?
    KichaeK Kichae

    Over on Reddit the other day, u/MeanMeanFun asked the PF2 subreddit what they can do about a player at their table who isn’t as engaged with the game as the rest of the players. This player is newer to the game than the rest of the table, but has been playing for a year now and still struggles to remember things like what all of their items do, and isn’t engaging in optimal tactical play.

    Some form of this discussion comes up somewhat frequently, and the responses people get are often jarring to me. Consider these replies:


    If they cannot grasp the basics after 12+ months it is possible that pf2e isn’t their game.


    Some people’s brains aren’t wired for this game. At this point I think you have to come to terms with the fact that they’re not gonna get any better, and then start thinking and discussing with your other players how to go forward.


    There’s almost a kind of literacy that ttrpgs require in general and PF demands a lot of in particular. Even if someone is really committed to memorizing stuff, there’s a bringing-it-all-togetherness that’s a unique skill that’s still required to actually apply that knowledge.

    All of which is to say that it’s possible this isn’t really their fault while this game still not really being for them. If someone just doesn’t get basketball and is constantly double dribbling, carrying, making fouls, and shooting in the wrong basket despite a lot of practice, they’re probably not going to be very welcome in the local pickup game, even if they practice a lot and try really hard.


    Responses like this are common on any post where someone is either struggling to internalize all of the rules of the game, or doesn’t want to engaged deeply and directly with the game’s engine. There’s a chauvinism on display here which often goes unacknowledged and unchallenged, and not only is it deeply unhelpful to people who are specifically looking for help, but it also creates a sense that the game itself, and the community that surrounds it, is actually openly hostile to them and their play.

    And my experience with the largest online spaces focused on the game is that they are hostile to players who aren’t looking to engage with the game in a narrow range of ways. There is constant background chatter around what “the game expects” or “the game demands”, and that chatter ultimately always paints a picture of a very rigid game with a very narrow focus on tactical combat with a narrow range of parameters.

    Meanwhile, the game includes rules that supports almost everything under the sun, including a significant list of feats, spells, and other player options that people regularly complain are too niche to even look at, many of which are explicitly focused on exploration, survival, or social engagement – you know, all of the things you’d want to include in your game if you were trying to release a general purpose fantasy roleplaying game.

    So, it all raises the question: Just who is this game actually for?

    While there doesn’t seem to be a consensus among the game’s audience – or, at least the part of it that is active on Reddit and the Paizo forums – about who Pathfinder 2e is for, there does seem to be relatively strong agreement about who it is not for: Everyone.

    And I’m not really sure I get it.

    I mean, ok, sure, nothing is truly for everybody all of the time. Even water isn’t going to do much for someone who’s not thirsty. PF2’s not going to be a great fit if you’re looking for early 20th century psychological horror, say, or if you’re in the mood to play a cozy game about contemporary hobby farming. But the line is not “this game isn’t necessarily the best fit for the type of thing the player wants to do right now”, it’s “this game isn’t for them”. And I know someone’s going to tell me I’m reading too much into that wording, but I don’t believe that I am.

    I think there’s a vocal group of people who like very particular things that PF2 enables, and who simultaneously do not care about other things that PF2 also enables, and who want to totally discount the latter while enshrining the former as the default – if not only – legitimate way to play the game.

    And that’s unfortunate, because Pathfinder 2e is an incredibly flexible and robust fantasy RPG with so many bits and pieces that you can lean into or remove as your table sees fit. Is it a one pager? No, of course not – there are a lot of rules to skim over and decide what you like and want to keep, and what you maybe can trim away – but you can pare it down very far and have something that supports your play (just look at Pathwarden, and its genre-neutral follow-up Warden, both of which are based off of the PF2 engine). Or consider Hellfinder, another pared down ‘hack’ of PF2 focused on modern horror, developed by Jason Bulmahn, lead designer of both Pathfinder 1e and 2e.

    The game is designed to be modular. It can be extended or stripped down almost as much as you want. This was the designers intent for the system.

    And I say with much confidence, the game feels really good played loosely. It’s a great engine for wacky nonsense, and light play. It’s great for a roleplay focused table, just as it is for a hardcore tactical combat focused group. It supports fiction-foreward play so much better than it’s given credit for.

    A response to the original post by u/SleepylaReef really hit something home for me. I don’t know that it’s fair to the OP, but it definitely holds a bit of a mirror up to this toxic vein:


    Lots of players never learn the game, period. So you decide if this person is a friend you like to spend time with and you accept their foillibles, or if they’re just tools you use to game with and you kick them out for not being good enough for you.


    For some people, the others sitting around the table are just tools to enable their own particular type of fun. For some people, there being others in the player pool who aren’t good tools for them is a waste of their time. This has become abundantly clear over time.

    Blog pathfinder2e pf2e pf2 dnd ttrpg

  • Let's do this.
    KichaeK Kichae

    Technology Connections Oh man, right-wing heat pump and dishwasher spaces must be in a wild tizzy this weekend. This is going to be worse than all of the people suddenly asking why Star Trek had to go and get all “woke”.

    World

  • A lesson so many need to learn
    KichaeK Kichae

    I don’t know. My experience with the community has been a lot of people yelling “You’re playing my fantasy XCOM board game wrong. You should probably play a rules-light game,” and no one stepping up to challenge them.

    Pathfinder rpgmemes

  • I read a post today about someone wanting to play an OSR game and then cooling on it quite rapidly because the GM presented them with a river to cross and they couldn't work out how to do it.
    KichaeK Kichae

    Charnock Yes. It’s moving from board-games and MMORPGs into TTRPGs and expecting there to be a button on your character sheet that you can press.

    Moreau Vazh I like games with feats, and skills lists, and numbers that present a framework for differentiating a character’s skills and learning from the players’. I kind of hate paper buttons, though, and it’s exactly because of players seeing them as signals that it’s a board game experience.

    I prefer a high trust environment with a… a physics engine, as it were. A consistent and internally consistent set of tools and progression systems. The vast majority of people who talk about such games essentially demand low trust environments where they are entitled to not just have a say in how their choices are adjudicated, but also in what everyone else’s choices can be.

    I once had someone reply to one of my YouTube comments on this saying that they believed that all tables should run strictly RAW, because then they didn’t have to vet the GM before dropping into the game, and it’s like… No wonder I can’t stand talking to these people.

    World

  • A lesson so many need to learn
    KichaeK Kichae

    Mortals & Portals is very good. They made the decision to use PF2e like 2 weeks before they started recording, and learned the game on the fly. Sometimes they trip over the rules, but they also illustrate how to fail forward in that regard.

    They also run it as a Theatre of the Mind game, which a lot of people will try to convince you isn’t really feasible. They fease it just fine, so I like it as an example.

    Narrative Declaration also has several campaigns on YouTube. Rotgrind and Rotgoons are campaigns set in a gritty homebrew world. They had an aborted Abomination Vaults campaign that started off with the game’s beginner box. They’re currently running Rusthenge, which is a different beginner’s adventure. They also have a series of “teaching Pathfinder 2e to VTubers” campaigns, which… They’re good, but they’re just the beginner’s box over and over again, with different cartoon variety streamers. They use Foundry, and play gridded combat.

    Pathfinder rpgmemes

  • seeing another round of "don't favorite posts on fedi"
    KichaeK Kichae

    Sara

    it’s true that it doesn’t particulary increase the distribution of your post

    This is also just a very mastodon-centric view of things. It is neither inherently true, nor true on all existing platforms. It’s just the way that Mastodon developers decided to implement things. On Lemmy, an up-vote increases the post/comment ranking and increases redistribution. On NodeBB, a like forces the server to retain the the post beyond the server’s remote content purge threshold. Other platforms could do things different still, and likely already do.

    The fediverse isn’t synonymous with Mastodon. It never was, and it never will be.

    World

  • Open question to the Fediverse/Universe/Mastodon:'nHas anyone used Azgaar's Fantasy Map Generator in a TTRPG campaign?
    KichaeK Kichae

    Not wholesale, no, but I’ve definitely used it for inspiration. Actually, I think I’ve used screenshots from it as masks for Wonderdraft.

    The Watabou city generator, though… It’s provided the layout to my hero cities right off the shelf.

    Pathfinder ttrpg worldbuilding

  • Prescriptive vs Descriptive Rules and Pathfinder 2 as a Fiction-First Roleplaying Game
    KichaeK Kichae

    Spend almost any amount of time below the fold of the Internet and you’re likely to come across someone smugly repeating their junior high grammar lessons in front of the whole of humanity. They’re telling someone they shouldn’t’ve used “should of”, that it’s not OK to use “its”, and that they’re nauseated by people claiming to feel nauseous. Or that you can’t start a sentence with a conjunction, even!

    Large scale social media tends towards competitive spaces, where participants are jockeying for likes, shares, up-votes, or some other form of passive micro-validation just in order to get eyeballs on what they have to say and to feel heard. Ironically, this tends to limit what someone can say, boiling a discussion down to a few choice strategies for gaining social approval.

    One of these strategies is flexing their intelligence by being technically correct, something that leads to engage in prescriptive rhetoric, like such as over-correcting someone’s grammar, even when everyone around understood what the original speaker was trying to say.

    TTRPG discussion tends towards prescriptivism as a mater of course, since rule sets are, well, prescriptions for playing the game. Rules also – generally speaking at least – have a singularly defined intent behind their existence, which while sometimes debatable, are not usually meant to be open to interpretation. Or, at least, this is the common conceit of spaces dedicated to discussing said rules. As a “crunchy” rule set with a specific focus on balance – and therefore on math and numerics – Pathfinder Second Edition discussions are especially prone to this kind of thing.

    I mean, it makes sense, right? The game has a lot of rules! Clearly it wants to be viewed through a prescriptivist, mechanics-first lens!

    Right?

    But what if it doesn’t?

    What if the more natural lens to view the game through is not the one that low-key paints it out to be an overly-needy and insufferable pedant? What if, instead, the designers knew they were making an imagination game built for co-operative storytelling, and not just Lord of the Rings X-COM with an atrocious frame rate? How might we interpret the the rules then?

    While the prescriptive view of the rules leads to a mechanics-first understanding of the game, a descriptive view supports a fiction-first one, and smooths over a lot of the rough edges that new players who are more accustomed to a less rigid form of play experience when trying out the game for the first time. For instance, many players coming from 3.5 or 5e take issue with the game’s ‘Action’ framework, where every thing that characters do in the game is filtered through pre-defined Actions such as Strike, Trip, Shove, Sense Motive, Seek, Take Cover, etc. They come across the fairly long list of basic Actions and see them as meaning that the game is finicky, and even demanding. Some even end up feeling that players are confined to only do things that are ‘pre-approved’ by the list.

    You know, because game rules are ‘supposed’ to tell you what players are supposed to, or allowed to, do.

    The descriptive interpretation of Basic Actions, though, is that they are describing typical play, and act as examples to the GM about how to handle rulings for the most common or useful cases, providing a framework for improvising actions in the process. Anyone familiar with other d20 fantasy games should quickly recognize that most Actions are just descriptions of skill checks, anyway, sometimes with a little rider or critical success/failure effect.

    The prescriptive, mechanics-first lens, then, has this tendency to make play sound very clinical, e.g.:

    Player 1: “I use the Stride Action to approach the enemy, the Trip Action, and the Strike Action with my longsword.”

    Player 2: I use the Cast a Spell Activity to cast Fireball, and then use the Cast a Spell Activity to cast Shield.

    even though this would sound totally bizarre and foreign to even most tactically invested tables. The fiction-first approach, though, sounds more natural (and also doesn’t require the player to remember the specific names of the various Actions):

    Player 1: “I charge the enemy, trying to knock him to the ground before attacking with my longsword!”

    Player 2: I cast Fireball, and then… umm… cast Shield.

    Here, it’s up to the GM to decide what “knocking the enemy to the ground” means, but the most common ruling for this is going to end up being “roll Athletics against Reflex” or “roll Athletics against Fortitude”. The game defines Trip by the former, and Reflex is, in fact, the save that makes the most sense if you’re trying to describe the reality of getting knocked off your feet – keeping yourself on your feet is usually more a feat of dexterity than it is of whatever “constitution” is!

    “But what if the GM picks Fortitude, like a stupid, uneducated philistine?," I hear you ask. "Doesn’t that break the tactical element of the game?” And yes, it kind of does! It would buff the defences of low Ref monsters, potentially considerably. If your table is concerned about maintaining good tactical hygiene, it’s important for GMs to either remember that Trip is Ref and Shove is Fort, or have a strong enough understanding of hand-to-hand combat to intuitively know what is a DEX-based save and what is a CON-based one. But if your table isn’t concerned about tactical hygiene?

    Then it probably doesn’t matter.

    And if your table is concerned about it, but it’s somebody else’s table that’s running it that way, it definitely doesn’t matter to you.

    I know this all sounds pretty pedantic so far. Really, what’s the big difference between being more formal and stiff with describing your turn vs being more fluid and narrative? At the end of the day, the math is all the same, and the game ends up playing the same way, right?

    Well, things start to diverge pretty quickly once you start pointing your descriptive lens at various elements of the game.

    The Game Expects…

    It is sometimes shocking how demanding some people believe the game to be. Every time I turn around, it feels like someone is telling a new player or a struggling GM that “the game expects” this, and “the game expects” that, and every time I see it I’m left wondering if people bought very different books than I did, or if the Archives of Nethys are serving up very different pages to me, for it seems like they’re playing a very different game than the one I engage in each week.

    “The game expects" is, of course, the catchphrase of prescriptivism.

    The most common topics subject to this line of thinking are things like:

    • player conditions (“the game expects everyone to be at full health at the start of battle”)
    • gold at level [n]”)
    • encounter size (“the game expects battles to have budgets of no more than 160 XP”)
    • character stat distributions (“the game expects you to have a +4 in your key attribute” or “the game expects you to have potency and striking runes by level [n]”).

    All of these statements regularly bring the system into conflict with new players and GMs – particularly those coming from 5e – and, importantly, literally none of them are true. But at this point, they’re all practically dogma to the most vocal parts of the online Pathfinder 2e community.

    The descriptive lens on these elements are that these are mostly – the first three, in particular – just signposts, or marked gradations that are useful for reference: If you build an 80 XP encounter, it will present a Moderate threat to a party of 4 who are at full HP; if your encounter has 120 HP, it will use significant party resources, and may even turn deadly, for a party of 4 at full health; etc. If your party is at half their max HP, however, the counters could end up being much more difficult! If you build a 100 XP encounter, it will be more dangerous than an 80 XP fight!

    Importantly, you do not need to decide on the difficulty of the encounter before you build it. You can, instead, decide that there’s a Goblin raiding camp over this hill, and it just so happens to have 5 Goblin Commandos, 2 Goblin Pyros, and 20 Goblin Warriors in it, just come back from a successful raid. For a party of 4 Level 3 adventurers, this camp represents a 100 + 40 + 200 = 340 XP encounter, which is more than twice the power budget of an Extreme encounter. As a GM, you know that this camp is a problem for your party.

    But the game is about finding solutions to problems, is it not?

    The prescriptive lens says that this encounter is illegal – outside the bounds of the rules – since the encounter barometer caps off at 160 XP, but the descriptive lens just says “sounds like the party’s going to get messed up right some good”.

    A similar thing plays out if we look at the Treasure by Level table. The prescriptivist view is that players must get 3 Level 1 consumables, 2 Level 2 consumables, 2 permanent items of both Level 1 and Level 2, plus 40 gold in coin and disposable treasure over the span of Level 1. They shall not receive less, and they should not receive more (within reason)! If the GM does not give them their allotted entitlement, then that GM is starving the PCs and depriving their players of the Proper Pathfinder Experience! And they’re just running the game wrong!

    But the thing is, this requires GMs to craft encounters that have just the right loot buried in them, or to create environments that have just the right amount of treasure for reasons beyond reasonable explanation. Shouldn’t the environment the players find themselves in dictate how much loot, and of what kind, the players find? Shouldn’t the amount of effort players put into actually looking for loot matter? The descriptivist GM would say so, but the (strawman) prescriptiveist would say that their Level 1 players find 40 gp and some healing potions for robbing a bank, and in the process they might only come across a couple of guards, throwing themselves at them black ninja style.

    Through the descriptivist lens, the Treasure by Level table just tells us where the sweet spot in the power curve is. At each level, a certain amount of the player’s power budget is taken up by items and gear, and the Treasure by Level table marks off where the standard is for each level. A player who has significantly less than listed will be less powerful than the ‘Standard’ character of their level, and the one who has significantly more than what’s listed will be more powerful. But being below or above the curve isn’t a problem through this lens, it’s just a description of the current state of the game. If players are under the curve, they may find 80 XP encounters a little harder than the ‘Moderate’ description, and if they’re over it, they’ll find them a little easier.

    And that’s OK.

    The Prescriptive Lens and Tactical Power Gaming

    Things like battle budgets and treasure tables make sense as things people would see as dictated by the game, since they are directly part of the text of the rule books. Even though the game text does not come out and directly use the word “should” when discussing these topics, it’s totally logical that a new GM is going to look at them and say “this is what the game recommends”. And for a new table, these do a huge amount of the heavy lifting with respect to providing predictable combat encounters, which are touted as one of the major selling points of the system.

    But where do these ideas around players being ‘expected’ to have full health, or ‘needing’ to have a +4 in their key attribute come from? They’re not found in any of the rule books! At least, not explicitly. And they’re not things that new players or GMs would necessarily intuit from reading the text.

    Many argue that the the received wisdom of always having full health is a corollary of the encounter building system, since fights are bigger threats than advertised if players are significantly lacking in resources. For some reason, however, the only resource people seem to insist that players should not be lacking is HP, even though the designers will specifically call out Spell Slots, Focus Points, and even consumables when discussing the topic. The idea that player are entitled to full spell slots, free potions, or a flight of Alchemist’s Fire just never seems to come up.

    The real clue is in the rhetoric around the key ability modifier. Again, not something that comes up anywhere in the system’s library, the received wisdom to maximize this value comes from the fact that it optimizes damage. And if you spend time observing the community’s attitudes towards sub-optimal play, things really start to snap into focus.

    The majority of online discussions about Pathfinder 2e are quietly, almost secretly, power gaming or optimization discussions, regardless of whether the people initiating the discussion are seeking optimization advice. Some fans have even argued that the expectation of optimization is baked into the game’s core, built on top of the assumption that the game is really a tactical combat game wearing the skin of a roleplaying game. Power gamers and tactical combat game fans both love rigid systems and predictable math, and Pathfinder 2e provides plenty of the latter. The game can easily and much more reliably present what these groups are looking for than many other systems out there, especially if they also want in on that d20 fantasy lifestyle. But the idea that it’s a roleplaying game second?

    This is a thesis that I, personally, vigorously and wholeheartedly reject.

    The game can be a rigid, tactical power game, if that’s how you want to utilize the the tools in its toolbox. And if it is, more power to you. I’m really quite incredibly glad the game can be played in that way, both because I like a big tent, and also because I like the occasional tactical combat game (Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle is by far my favourite game I got from Ubisoft during my tenure with the company), but it can also be a lot of other things, depending on how you utilize those tools.

    Because that’s what the rules are: Tools to help you craft a gaming experience tailored to your table. And these tools work just as well, and make just as much sense – if not more – if viewed through a descriptive, fiction-first lens. And playing the game in a fiction-first way quickly highlights that Pathfinder 2e is a very flexible, kitchen-sink fantasy RPG that is just as good at being a collective storytelling engine as it is at being a crunchy, mechanics-first tactical sword and sorcery game.

    It doesn’t get nearly as much credit or attention for this as it deserves.

    Blog pathfinder pf2e ttrpg dnd

  • I’ve deleted all the communities on PieFed.social where I was the sole moderator.
    KichaeK Kichae

    This is the direction I’ve been moving, and my cotributions to this space are microscopic compared to yours. There’s just too much energy tied up in other peoples spaces, the product of which can blink out of existence without any warning or recourse. Too much focus has been put on building spaces that look and feel like mega-social sites. Falling into those tropes prevents us from focusing on creating something new and uniquely ours.

    You have the tools to house your own communities. If you have the energy to do it, it’s best to build them on a foundation you can trust.

    World
  • Login

  • Login or register to search.
Powered by NodeBB Contributors
  • First post
    Last post